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Request karma privileges to vote on PHP RFCs

php.internals

Nuno Maduro

3 years ago
Hi Internals, I am writing to request karma privileges to vote on PHP RFCs. For those who don't know me, my name is Nuno Maduro <https://twitter.com/enunomaduro>, and I am a member of the Laravel <https://github.com/nunomaduro/> core team. I have been involved in developing and maintaining various Laravel tools and framework features that are widely used by companies worldwide. I'm also the creator and maintainer <https://github.com/nunomaduro> of several popular open source projects like PEST <https://pestphp.com/>, PHP Insights, Laravel Zero, Collision, Larastan, Termwind, OpenAI for PHP, and more. These projects have been downloaded millions of times and have made a positive impact on the PHP ecosystem. As a speaker, I've had the opportunity to present at conferences in many countries, including Laracons, PHP Italy, Forum PHP, PHP Serbia, PHP UK Conference, PHPTek, and more. My talks usually revolve around the open-source tools I've built, PHP, Laravel, and include live code demonstrations. I believe having a Laravel core team member on the list of members with voting rights would be incredibly valuable to the internals team. I have a strong connection with the Laravel community, and I believe it's essential to have their representation in the decision-making process. My username is “nunomaduro”, and thanks for taking the time to read my proposal. Nuno.

Dan Ackroyd

3 years ago
On Tue, 4 Jul 2023 at 20:30, Nuno Maduro <enunomaduro@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi Internals,
Hi Nuno,
> I believe having a Laravel core team member on the list of members with > voting rights would be incredibly valuable to the internals team.
All open source projects value contributions to their project really highly compared to pretty much everything else. There is nothing stopping you spending time and helping to improve RFCs or fix issues. You don't need any karma or permission to do that.
> I have a strong connection with the Laravel community,
I think presenting the voice of a large number of downstream users would be useful. Instead of giving a personal vote for yourself, how about we*, the PHP project, think about setting up a vote for the 'Laravel project' as a voting entity? The idea being, your users can come together and give feedback as a single voice, in some public source the Laravel project publishes e.g. laravel.com/net.php.wiki/rfc/some_rfc_name/feedbackrather than having the whole burden of interacting with internals be solely on yourself. I've been meaning to say some stuff about communication between internals contributors and downstream users for a while now. I'll try and finish that email, but I think setting up something like that, would be a better path than the one we're currently on. To note, it will probably take some time to figure this out. I'm reasonably sure people will have opinions. Possibly quite a few. cheers Dan Ack * not that I actually am the PHP project, but I'm probably part of it.

David Gebler

3 years ago
On Tue, Jul 4, 2023 at 8:30 PM Nuno Maduro <enunomaduro@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Internals, > > I am writing to request karma privileges to vote on PHP RFCs. > >
I'm not a voter and have no influence here but from previous discussions which have come from similar requests, I don't think you're likely to get this. The conventional or common view is that without a regular history of contributions to internals, both via this mailing list and proposing, designing, implementing, fixing or otherwise aiding with RFCs, voting rights are not typically granted. And even whether those criteria are sufficiently met is a somewhat subjective thing. I do think the system and criteria for choosing who gets to vote is something which needs to be modernised and changed, particularly in respect of recognising significant userland authors and contributors, but the problem is probably that whenever this has come up before, no one's been able to propose a sufficiently agreeable solution. We probably all share a general principle of belief that PHP should be as open a democracy as is practical, but there must also be a consideration for the fairly small group of regular, core developers who are responsible - voluntarily - for the majority of the work maintaining the new features which work their way in. I appreciate this is therefore not a straightforward matter, even though like anyone else I'd like to be able to have a say in the future of the language I love and use every day. I think the best thing there and what I try to do myself is just make sure your voice is heard on this mailing list on the discussion period of any RFCs which interest or concern you. This mailing list is open, anyone can participate, no special karma needed. I've had one small RFC and a couple of minor bugfixes accepted too. So we know it's possible to give something back at whatever level and to whatever extent we are able and willing, and we don't need to be able to vote to do that. -Dave

Kalle Sommer Nielsen

3 years ago
Hi Nuno Den tirs. 4. jul. 2023 kl. 22.30 skrev Nuno Maduro <enunomaduro@gmail.com>:
> > Hi Internals, > > I am writing to request karma privileges to vote on PHP RFCs. > > For those who don't know me, my name is Nuno Maduro > <https://twitter.com/enunomaduro>, and I am a member of the Laravel > <https://github.com/nunomaduro/> core team. I have been involved in > developing and maintaining various Laravel tools and framework features > that are widely used by companies worldwide. > > I'm also the creator and maintainer <https://github.com/nunomaduro> of > several popular open source projects like PEST <https://pestphp.com/>, PHP > Insights, Laravel Zero, Collision, Larastan, Termwind, OpenAI for PHP, and > more. These projects have been downloaded millions of times and have made a > positive impact on the PHP ecosystem. > > As a speaker, I've had the opportunity to present at conferences in many > countries, including Laracons, PHP Italy, Forum PHP, PHP Serbia, PHP UK > Conference, PHPTek, and more. My talks usually revolve around the > open-source tools I've built, PHP, Laravel, and include live code > demonstrations. > > I believe having a Laravel core team member on the list of members with > voting rights would be incredibly valuable to the internals team. I have a > strong connection with the Laravel community, and I believe it's essential > to have their representation in the decision-making process.
I too believe that it is important to have people involved in the decision making process, however if you are not an active participant of the internals community, then I cannot see how having voting rights will change anything. Searching the old archives I found 4 mails from 2021 (the first prior to this) in regards to an RFC of yours, 1 for a comment regarding a change suggestion and 3 from a first version of your RFC. Neither do I see any engagement or similar on our Github, Bug tracker (1 cosmetic change to the test runner) or similar projects within the PHP.net project umbrella. If you are only involved with the voting part but not the technical part, then I have a hard time seeing this being anything other than some badge of honor, sorry. While your resume is very impressive for sure, it does not tell me that you are involved with the internals eco system and take part of it, to me it looks like you just want to vote without investing more time in the internals community. I believe any reasonable person would have taken part of existing discussions and contributions within the PHP.net project. I would suggest to read Dan's reply and collect feedback if you feel that you are a representing the Laravel community and start there. We often hear feedback from other projects, but I cannot remember a recent time where Laravel representative gave feedback to a discussion or contributed (arguably my memory like most others is not the best). I cannot see how this should be granted at the current state
-- regards, Kalle Sommer Nielsen kalle@php.net

Nuno Maduro

3 years ago
On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 at 01:36, Kalle Sommer Nielsen <kalle@php.net> wrote:
> Hi Nuno > > Den tirs. 4. jul. 2023 kl. 22.30 skrev Nuno Maduro <enunomaduro@gmail.com > >: > > > > Hi Internals, > > > > I am writing to request karma privileges to vote on PHP RFCs. > > > > For those who don't know me, my name is Nuno Maduro > > <https://twitter.com/enunomaduro>, and I am a member of the Laravel > > <https://github.com/nunomaduro/> core team. I have been involved in > > developing and maintaining various Laravel tools and framework features > > that are widely used by companies worldwide. > > > > I'm also the creator and maintainer <https://github.com/nunomaduro> of > > several popular open source projects like PEST <https://pestphp.com/>, > PHP > > Insights, Laravel Zero, Collision, Larastan, Termwind, OpenAI for PHP, > and > > more. These projects have been downloaded millions of times and have > made a > > positive impact on the PHP ecosystem. > > > > As a speaker, I've had the opportunity to present at conferences in many > > countries, including Laracons, PHP Italy, Forum PHP, PHP Serbia, PHP UK > > Conference, PHPTek, and more. My talks usually revolve around the > > open-source tools I've built, PHP, Laravel, and include live code > > demonstrations. > > > > I believe having a Laravel core team member on the list of members with > > voting rights would be incredibly valuable to the internals team. I have > a > > strong connection with the Laravel community, and I believe it's > essential > > to have their representation in the decision-making process. > > I too believe that it is important to have people involved in the > decision making process, however if you are not an active participant > of the internals community, then I cannot see how having voting rights > will change anything. Searching the old archives I found 4 mails from > 2021 (the first prior to this) in regards to an RFC of yours, 1 for a > comment regarding a change suggestion and 3 from a first version of > your RFC. Neither do I see any engagement or similar on our Github, > Bug tracker (1 cosmetic change to the test runner) or similar projects > within the PHP.net project umbrella. > > If you are only involved with the voting part but not the technical > part, then I have a hard time seeing this being anything other than > some badge of honor, sorry. While your resume is very impressive for > sure, it does not tell me that you are involved with the internals eco > system and take part of it, to me it looks like you just want to vote > without investing more time in the internals community. I believe any > reasonable person would have taken part of existing discussions and > contributions within the PHP.net project. I would suggest to read > Dan's reply and collect feedback if you feel that you are a > representing the Laravel community and start there. We often hear > feedback from other projects, but I cannot remember a recent time > where Laravel representative gave feedback to a discussion or > contributed (arguably my memory like most others is not the best). > > I cannot see how this should be granted at the current state > > > -- > regards, > > Kalle Sommer Nielsen > kalle@php.net >
I totally understand that joining discussions more frequently is key to granting someone RFC voting rights. I will definitely keep that in mind moving forward and make an effort to participate in discussions. In my head, I thought it would be interesting to include someone from the Laravel team on the list of people with voting rights and didn't think that participating in past discussions was "imperative" for it. Anyways, thanks for the heads up! I will keep that in mind before requesting voting rights again. Nuno.