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PASSWORD_DEFAULT value

php.internals

Vinicius Dias

2 years ago

Hey there, folks!

I was wondering here... Is there any reason for `PASSWORD_DEFAULT`'s
value not to be `PASSWORD_ARGON2ID`?

Would that change require an RFC?

Tim Düsterhus

2 years ago

Hi

On 9/6/23 18:08, Vinicius Dias wrote:

> I was wondering here... Is there any reason for `PASSWORD_DEFAULT`'s
> value not to be `PASSWORD_ARGON2ID`?
>

To the best of my knowledge Argon2 is not available in a "default"
installation of PHP without including any external dependencies.

Also Argon2 for settings that are reasonable for interactive
authentication is worse than BCrypt according to:

https://twitter.com/TerahashCorp/status/1155119064248913920
and
https://twitter.com/TerahashCorp/status/1155129705034653698

Best regards
Tim Düsterhus

Hans Henrik Bergan

2 years ago

Argon2 is opt-in, not opt-out, at compile-time, so then we would have to
agree on it being acceptable for PASSWORD_DEFAULT to have different values
depending on compile-time options, maybe thats completely fine, or maybe it
isn't, idk.

But as Dusterhus points out, Argon2 is inferior to bcrypt anyway, according
to people much smarter than myself.

Oh and Argon2 has been around since 2015 and multiple vulnerabilities have
been discovered, speeding up brute force/dictionary attacks. Can't say the
same for bcrypt

On Wed, Sep 6, 2023, 18:52 Tim Düsterhus <tim@bastelstu.be> wrote:

Vinicius Dias

2 years ago

This is very interesting. It's the first time I see recommendations
pro Bcrypt and against Argon2. Even Owasp recommends Argon2 over
Bcrypt [1].

I am not a cryptography expert so I believe that if there is a
discussion of which one is better PHP shouldn't change things for now,
so that totally answers the question of why the default is still
bcrypt.

Thank you both for replying.

[1] https://cheatsheetseries.owasp.org/cheatsheets/Password_Storage_Cheat_Sheet.html

Vinicius Dias,
Zend Certified Engineer,
iMasters PHP Certified Professional

Em qua., 6 de set. de 2023 às 16:25, Hans Henrik Bergan
<divinity76@gmail.com> escreveu:

Tim Düsterhus

2 years ago

Hi

On 9/6/23 21:33, Vinicius Dias wrote:

> This is very interesting. It's the first time I see recommendations
> pro Bcrypt and against Argon2. Even Owasp recommends Argon2 over
> Bcrypt [1].
>
> I am not a cryptography expert so I believe that if there is a
> discussion of which one is better PHP shouldn't change things for now,
> so that totally answers the question of why the default is still
> bcrypt.
>

There is some opportunity for change or improvement. As a result of this
thread I've created an "Increasing the default BCrypt cost" RFC. I'd be
happy to see you within that RFC's discussion thread [1].

Best regards
Tim Düsterhus

[1] https://news-web.php.net/php.internals/121004