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Implicit Arrays and E_STRICT

php.internals

Sara Golemon

22 years ago

This topic got quietly dropped last week, but I'd like to make one last
plea.  I'd like to see Zend throw an E_STRICT when arrays are implicitly
created.  I know there were objections to E_NOTICE, but did anyone have
violent objections to E_STRICT?

-Sara

Christian Schneider

22 years ago

Sara Golemon wrote:

> plea.  I'd like to see Zend throw an E_STRICT when arrays are implicitly
> created.  I know there were objections to E_NOTICE, but did anyone have
> violent objections to E_STRICT?

I guess the question is whether we want to deprecate the automatic array
creation at some point as E_STRICT is meant for that case. Otherwise we
are abusing E_STRICT and might render it unusable to some degree.

(From the description in the php.ini file E_NOTICE seems more
appropriate as people who auto-init arrays probably also use
uninitialized variables and thus don't use E_NOTICE anyway.)

My .02,
- Chris

John Coggeshall

22 years ago

On Fri, 2004-05-07 at 18:26, Christian Schneider wrote:

> I guess the question is whether we want to deprecate the automatic array
> creation at some point as E_STRICT is meant for that case. Otherwise we
> are abusing E_STRICT and might render it unusable to some degree.

I was also under the impression that E_STRICT was for depreciated items.
If there is some sort of agreement that automagic array construction is
a bad thing*, then I believe it should be E_NOTICE.

John

* - Personally, I tend to disagree that there is a need for a warning,
it just seems like another difference between PHP 4 and PHP 5 that
really doesn't buy people much.

--
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John Coggeshall                   http://www.coggeshall.org/
The PHP Developer's Handbook    http://www.php-handbook.com/
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Marcus Börger

22 years ago

Hello Sara,

i like to see one of those too and i have no preference for one of them.

marcus

Friday, May 7, 2004, 11:05:15 PM, you wrote:

> This topic got quietly dropped last week, but I'd like to make one last
> plea.  I'd like to see Zend throw an E_STRICT when arrays are implicitly
> created.  I know there were objections to E_NOTICE, but did anyone have
> violent objections to E_STRICT?

> -Sara

--
Best regards,
Marcus                            mailto:helly@php.net

Jason Garber

22 years ago

I would view implicit array creation as a slightly negative thing, similar
to accessing the value of a variable that does not exist.

We run in E_ALL mode and write our code to avoid all E_NOTICEs.  For
instance, before using an array, I always initialize it using $aItems =
array();

I'm in favor of issuing an E_NOTICE in response to this.

~Jason

At 5/8/2004 12:43 AM +0200, Marcus Boerger wrote:

Jevon Wright

22 years ago

Won't you then have to recursively initialise multiple dimension arrays?

$a = array();
$a[0] = array();

Otherwise, isn't this implicitly creating arrays? (I didn't quite understand
the last time)

Jevon

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Garber" <jason@ionzoft.com>
To: <internals@lists.php.net>
Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Implicit Arrays and E_STRICT

> I would view implicit array creation as a slightly negative thing, similar
> to accessing the value of a variable that does not exist.
>
> We run in E_ALL mode and write our code to avoid all E_NOTICEs.  For
> instance, before using an array, I always initialize it using $aItems =
> array();
>
> I'm in favor of issuing an E_NOTICE in response to this.
>
> ~Jason
>
> At 5/8/2004 12:43 AM +0200, Marcus Boerger wrote:
> >Hello Sara,
> >
> >i like to see one of those too and i have no preference for one of them.
> >
> >marcus
> >
> >Friday, May 7, 2004, 11:05:15 PM, you wrote:
> >
> > > This topic got quietly dropped last week, but I'd like to make one

last

> > > plea.  I'd like to see Zend throw an E_STRICT when arrays are

implicitly

> > > created.  I know there were objections to E_NOTICE, but did anyone

have

Sara Golemon

22 years ago

> > > This topic got quietly dropped last week, but I'd like to make one

last

> > > plea.  I'd like to see Zend throw an E_STRICT when arrays are

implicitly

> > > created.  I know there were objections to E_NOTICE, but did anyone

have

> > > violent objections to E_STRICT?
> > >
> >i like to see one of those too and i have no preference for one of them.
> >
> I would view implicit array creation as a slightly negative thing, similar
> to accessing the value of a variable that does not exist.
>
> We run in E_ALL mode and write our code to avoid all E_NOTICEs.  For
> instance, before using an array, I always initialize it using $aItems =
> array();
>
> I'm in favor of issuing an E_NOTICE in response to this.
>

As Andi stated in the earlier incarnation of this thread (I think it was
Andi), making an E_NOTICE will cause sudden errror generation in previously
E_ALL safe code.

While I *personally* would rather see E_NOTICE used, I can certainly
understand the desire to tread lightly on what has long been considered a
"feature" of PHP.  That's why I think that E_STRICT qualifies as an
effective compromise between encouraging good coding practices and avoiding
BC breaking changes which add little to actual scrript execution.

-Sarra

Andi Gutmans

22 years ago

Hi Sara,

I don't think any error message should be thrown during implicit array
creation. Not having to define your variables is one of the main principles
of the PHP language. I definitely don't think this should be changed. I
also don't see how this differs very much from a regular assignment to an
undefined variable (e.g. $var = 2; ).

I think making this an error, even an E_STRICT is a very bad move.
Andi

At 06:39 PM 5/7/2004 -0700, Sara Golemon wrote:

Sara Golemon

22 years ago

> I don't think any error message should be thrown during implicit array
> creation. Not having to define your variables is one of the main

principles

> of the PHP language. I definitely don't think this should be changed. I
> also don't see how this differs very much from a regular assignment to an
> undefined variable (e.g. $var = 2; ).
>

It differs in that if $var is already defined, doing $var = 2; COMPLETELY
overwrites it.  However if $array is already defined, then $array[] ADDS to
it.  I see implicit array creation as "bad" in the same way that
register_globals is "bad".

That is to say, it's not inherently evil, just prone to unexpected behavior
when not used correctly.

> I think making this an error, even an E_STRICT is a very bad move.
>

Then we differ on that.  Because I think it would be a useful tool for
helping the conscientious scripter avoid little, but potentially harmful
mistakes.

-Sara